Legislature(1999 - 2000)

02/29/2000 01:08 PM House TRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
      HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                   
                 February 29, 2000                                                                                              
                     1:08 p.m.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Andrew Halcro, Chairman                                                                                          
Representative Beverly Masek                                                                                                    
Representative Bill Hudson                                                                                                      
Representative John Cowdery                                                                                                     
Representative Allen Kemplen                                                                                                    
Representative Albert Kookesh                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO.  319                                                                                                             
"An Act providing for and relating to the issuance of state                                                                     
guaranteed transportation revenue anticipation bonds for the                                                                    
purpose of paying the cost of transportation projects that qualify                                                              
for federal highway aid and the allocation of those bond proceeds;                                                              
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 319 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO.  59                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the motor fuel tax; and providing for an                                                                    
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 319                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: TRANSPORTATION REVENUE ANTICIPATION BONDS                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 1/26/00      2007     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 1/26/00      2007     (H)  TRA, FIN                                                                                            
 1/26/00      2007     (H)  FISCAL NOTE (REV)                                                                                   
 1/26/00      2007     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DOT)                                                                              
 1/26/00      2007     (H)  GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                                                                       
 2/17/00               (H)  TRA AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 2/17/00               (H)  <Bill Postponed to 2/22>                                                                            
 2/22/00               (H)  TRA AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 2/22/00               (H)  Heard & Held                                                                                        
 2/22/00               (H)  MINUTE(TRA)                                                                                         
 2/29/00               (H)  TRA AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MARK RORICK                                                                                                                     
1055 Mendenhall Peninsula Road                                                                                                  
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 319.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
AMI REIFENSTEIN                                                                                                                 
PO Box 210375                                                                                                                   
Auke Bay, Alaska 99821-0375                                                                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 319.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DONALD OTIS, Mayor                                                                                                              
City of Haines                                                                                                                  
PO Box 1049                                                                                                                     
Haines, Alaska 99827                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified in support of HB 319.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT VENABLES, President                                                                                                      
Haines Chamber of Commerce                                                                                                      
219 Main Street, Suite 1                                                                                                        
Haines, Alaska 99827                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:   Deferred his comments to Donald Otis.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VINCE HANSEN, Administrator                                                                                                     
City of Haines                                                                                                                  
PO Box 1049                                                                                                                     
Haines, Alaska 99827                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified in support of HB 319.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
KEN RUSSO                                                                                                                       
(Address not provided)                                                                                                          
Skagway, Alaska 99840                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 319.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MIKE O'DANIEL                                                                                                                   
(Address not provided)                                                                                                          
Skagway, Alaska 99840                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 319.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JOHN MIELKE, Mayor                                                                                                              
City of Skagway                                                                                                                 
PO Box 415                                                                                                                      
Skagway, Alaska 99840                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 319.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BRIAN McNITT, Director                                                                                                          
Sitka Conservation Society                                                                                                      
PO Box 6533                                                                                                                     
Sitka, Alaska 99835                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 319.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JERRY LAPP, Mayor                                                                                                               
Haines Borough                                                                                                                  
PO Box 1209                                                                                                                     
Haines, Alaska 99827                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 319.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
GREG O'CLARY, Director                                                                                                          
Legislative & Governmental Affairs                                                                                              
Marine Engineers Beneficial Association/District Number 1 AFL-CIO                                                               
229 4th Street                                                                                                                  
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 319.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JAN WRENTMORE, Lobbyist                                                                                                         
City of Skagway                                                                                                                 
PO Box 271                                                                                                                      
Skagway, Alaska 99840                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 319.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BART HENDERSON (PH)                                                                                                             
(Address not provided)                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 319.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
NANCY WEBB, Assembly Member                                                                                                     
Fairbanks North Star Borough                                                                                                    
PO Box 71267                                                                                                                    
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 319.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JOSEPH L. PERKINS, Commissioner                                                                                                 
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities                                                                                
3132 Channel Drive                                                                                                              
Juneau, Alaska 99801-7898                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:   Answered questions regarding HB 319.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-13, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN ANDREW HALCRO called the House Transportation Standing                                                                 
Committee meeting to order at 1:08 p.m.  Members present at the                                                                 
call to order were Representatives Halcro, Hudson, Cowdery,                                                                     
Kemplen, Kookesh and Kohring.  Representative Masek arrived as the                                                              
meeting was in progress.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced that the committee will not be taking up                                                              
HB 59 due to the current rise in the price of gasoline.  He will                                                                
put it on the "back burner."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced that the committee will not be taking up                                                              
HB 182.  The sponsor has indicated that he doesn't have the votes                                                               
to move the bill out of committee.  Chairman Halcro will give the                                                               
sponsor until Thursday, March 2, 2000 to get the votes.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 319 - TRANSPORTATION REVENUE ANTICIPATION BONDS                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced the first order of business as House Bill                                                             
319, "An Act providing for and relating to the issuance of state                                                                
guaranteed transportation revenue anticipation bonds for the                                                                    
purpose of paying the cost of transportation projects that qualify                                                              
for federal highway aid and the allocation of those bond proceeds;                                                              
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO indicated that the Department of Transportation &                                                               
Public Facilities was very responsive in regards to the questions                                                               
he submitted earlier.  The answers are in the bill packet.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO opened the meeting to public testimony.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0254                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MARK RORICK came before the committee to testify.  He is a 25-year                                                              
resident of Juneau and is speaking for himself.  He read the                                                                    
following into the record:                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Chairman Halcro, Representative Hudson, committee                                                                          
     members.  Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the                                                                  
     Governor's accelerated transportation plan.  I'm here to                                                                   
     speak in favor of the $70 million in the bond proposal                                                                     
     for the construction of two Alaska Marine Highway vessels                                                                  
     to service Southeast Alaska.  In particular, the one for                                                                   
     the Lynn Canal route, which would run between Juneau,                                                                      
     Haines and Skagway.  These vessels will add needed                                                                         
     capacity to the system, and do so on a convenient,                                                                         
     everyday schedule.  They can also be running in the near                                                                   
     future, rather than in maybe--in 10 years or so as is the                                                                  
     case with the road.  The vessels are safe, reliable and                                                                    
     have demonstrated their capabilities with, if I remember                                                                   
     Bob Doll's comments correctly, over a thousand vessels of                                                                  
     similar type in service worldwide.  One has already been                                                                   
     approved for Southeast Alaska.  This vessel, along with                                                                    
     the two in the Governor's bond proposal, would be                                                                          
     interchangeable.  This lessens maintenance costs and                                                                       
     provides an ability to shift boats to where they are                                                                       
     needed most when demand conditions change.  The wide use                                                                   
     of this type of vessel also means that should it not be                                                                    
     needed at some time in the future there's a ready market                                                                   
     should the state wish to sell it.  This adding of                                                                          
     capacity to an already existing system in Lynn Canal,                                                                      
     using the recently upgraded ferry terminal in Auke Bay,                                                                    
     also means that DOT won't have to go through a lengthy                                                                     
     and contentious EIS [Environmental Impact Statement]                                                                       
     process to provide the access and improvements Lynn Canal                                                                  
     communities desire, as they would if they were going to                                                                    
     build a new terminal 43 miles out-the-road in Berners                                                                      
     Bay.  After years of public discussions of these ferries                                                                   
     and various transportation plans including the 1999                                                                        
     Southeast ferry plan, I applaud Commissioner Perkins and                                                                   
     Governor Knowles for coming forward with an accelerated                                                                    
     plan that with the approval of the voters would bring                                                                      
     them online in an expeditious manner.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     One last point to remember.  The construction of these                                                                     
     vessels does not close off the pursuit of any other                                                                        
     options and doesn't represent an irreversible decision on                                                                  
     Juneau's future.  I urge you to give this bond proposal                                                                    
     to improve marine access in Lynn Canal a chance to work.                                                                   
     Thank you.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0404                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
AMI REIFENSTEIN came before the committee to testify.  She has been                                                             
living in Juneau for twenty-five years.  She doesn't have all the                                                               
facts with her, but having grown up in Juneau she appreciates the                                                               
uniqueness of not having a road that goes to other places.  She                                                                 
strongly believes that Juneau should remain the way it is, with                                                                 
improved ferry access.  Moreover, she wants to raise her family in                                                              
Juneau, but a road might compromise safety by bringing in drifters                                                              
and strangers.  A road would change a lot of things; she will not                                                               
raise her family here, if there is one.  She said, "Juneau's a                                                                  
great community and if it changes a whole lot then, I think, a lot                                                              
of people are gonna leave."                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0588                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DONALD OTIS, Mayor, City of Haines, testified via teleconference                                                                
from Haines.  Improved access is important to Juneau, Haines,                                                                   
Skagway and to the rest of the state.  It's long overdue.  Haines                                                               
is united in their opposition to an east-side road.  Haines                                                                     
supports a high-speed ferry to allow for access; it's very                                                                      
positive.  A road, on the other hand, would be very negative to                                                                 
Haines, Skagway, and ultimately to Juneau and the rest of the                                                                   
state.  He urged the committee members to move the bill forward.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0680                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT VENABLES, President, Haines Chamber of Commerce, testified                                                               
via teleconference from Haines.  He deferred to Mr. Donald Otis'                                                                
comments in the interest of time.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0705                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VINCE HANSEN, Administrator, City of Haines, testified via                                                                      
teleconference from Haines.  The time is now to act, he said.  This                                                             
proposal allows for movement forward in order to improve access.                                                                
He also believes that using bond funds to help reduce the match                                                                 
requirement is a good idea.  It reduces pressure on other spending,                                                             
which affects everybody.  A daily or regular ferry service, he                                                                  
said, will open up many opportunities for Haines.  More people will                                                             
plan activities with consistent service, and Haines sorely needs                                                                
economic stimulus.  The proposal also addresses long-standing                                                                   
concerns regarding access to the Interior and other parts of                                                                    
Southeast Alaska.  Furthermore, the ferries will have a role with                                                               
the road option, in that they will provide more flexibility.  He                                                                
urged the committee members to move the bill forward.  Thank you.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0777                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KEN RUSSO testified via teleconference from Skagway.  He is                                                                     
speaking on his own behalf as a concerned citizen of Skagway.  The                                                              
great majority of the citizens of Skagway, he said, are in favor of                                                             
ferry and marine access.  This proposal seems to be in the best                                                                 
interest of the northern communities by improving access to Juneau                                                              
and Lynn Canal.  He urged the committee members to support the                                                                  
funding package.  Thank you.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0860                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MIKE O'DANIEL testified via teleconference from Skagway.  He is a                                                               
52-year-resident of Skagway.  He is representing himself, Skagway                                                               
Air Service and Skagway Hardware, both of which are family                                                                      
companies.  He feels that the fast ferries are a lesser evil to air                                                             
carriers than the road.  He announced, for the record, that he has                                                              
always been staunchly opposed to the road.  He is concerned about                                                               
businesses in the transportation industry competing against                                                                     
transportation systems that are subsidized.  Air carriers are part                                                              
of the infrastructure of the economy of Skagway, which has suffered                                                             
a blow in the last 10 to 15 years, and it's companies like his that                                                             
have a retirement plan and health care program that take direct                                                                 
shocks when the economy suffers.  He suggested that the committee                                                               
members take a serious look at the subsidy part of this issue; the                                                              
studies really didn't look at that specifically.  He expressed his                                                              
appreciation for being heard.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0974                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO explained to Mr. O'Daniel that the topic of                                                                     
competition came up at the last committee hearing [2/22/00], at                                                                 
which time it was indicated that the cost of shipping cargo by air                                                              
is prohibitive.  It was also indicated that ferries provide a                                                                   
needed service of shipping cars.  Although this committee is                                                                    
sensitive to the issue of competition between the government and                                                                
the private sector, it was concluded that this is a case where it                                                               
is warranted; it provides a needed service in Southeast Alaska.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1040                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOHN MIELKE, Mayor, City of Skagway, testified via teleconference                                                               
from Skagway.  The fast-ferry option, he said, moves in a direction                                                             
that creates an avenue for better access for all of Southeast                                                                   
Alaska.  Anything else would just cause delay, thereby affecting                                                                
the rest of Southeast, not just the upper Lynn Canal and Juneau.                                                                
It's important for everyone to note that access to Juneau is not                                                                
just an avenue for recreation.  This is a statewide issue.  He also                                                             
reminded the committee members that fast ferries were discussed in                                                              
the Southeast Transportation Plan for 1986, at which time trial                                                                 
runs were made in upper Lynn Canal.  Moreover, this does not                                                                    
eliminate a road in the big picture; it gives access sooner rather                                                              
than later.  He asked the committee members to pass the bill out of                                                             
committee fully intact.  Thank you.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1162                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BRIAN McNITT, Director, Sitka Conservation Society [SCS], testified                                                             
via teleconference from Sitka.  SCS strongly supports the expanded                                                              
use of ferries throughout Southeast Alaska.  The ferries, he said,                                                              
have always been an important transportation mode for freight,                                                                  
residents, and visitors, which are an important part of Sitka's                                                                 
economy.  SCS feels that this type of ferry would increase service                                                              
to Sitka by freeing up ferries at some point "down the road."  SCS                                                              
urged the committee members to pass the bill out of committee and                                                               
continue to expand the ferry system for Southeast Alaska.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1251                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY indicated that the proposal is more                                                                 
than just a ferry bill.  There are projects in Fairbanks,                                                                       
Anchorage, Mat-Su Valley and Bethel.  He asked Chairman Halcro                                                                  
whether anybody from those locations are online to testify.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO replied no.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON pointed out that at the last committee                                                               
hearing there was testimony from Fairbanks, Anchorage, Mat-Su                                                                   
Valley and even a few rural areas.  [See House Transportation                                                                   
Committee minutes dates 2/22/00.]                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1300                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JERRY LAPP, Mayor, Haines Borough, testified via teleconference                                                                 
from Haines.  The borough, he said, fully supports this legislation                                                             
and would like to see it move forward.  The committee members can                                                               
see from the testimony that there is a lot of support.  He thinks                                                               
that this will improve the transportation needs of Southeast                                                                    
Alaska, which has been needed for a long time.  Thank you.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1355                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GREG O'CLARY, Director, Legislative & Governmental Affairs, Marine                                                              
Engineers Beneficial  Association/District Number 1 AFL-CIO, came                                                               
before the committee to testify.  He has been a resident of Alaska                                                              
since 1950, primarily as a resident of Juneau.  He has been                                                                     
involved in the Alaska Marine Highway System since 1963.  He is                                                                 
aghast at the comments from a few individuals involved in the                                                                   
so-called "Juneau Access Committee."  The system, he said, needs                                                                
more vessels.  Moreover, fast ferries are not a new idea.  The idea                                                             
has been around for years and years.  He remembers when                                                                         
Representative [Bill] Hudson discussed a fast ferry during his                                                                  
first term in office.  Furthermore, the Lynn Canal corridor has                                                                 
been studied enough; it has had a lot more money spent on it than                                                               
any other project that hasn't come to fruition.  As testimony from                                                              
Haines and Skagway has indicated, there is no foreclosure on a                                                                  
potential road.  The Governor, he said, made the right decision                                                                 
under the circumstances.  He urged the committee members to pass                                                                
the bill to the next committee of referral with the two fast                                                                    
ferries intact.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1528                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Mr. O'Clary whether the marine                                                                      
engineers are working with the Department of Transportation &                                                                   
Public Facilities in relation to the performance of the high-speed                                                              
ferry between Juneau and Sitka.  He is concerned about safety in                                                                
Sergius Narrows.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  O'CLARY replied yes.  The marine engineers have been involved.                                                             
They were invited early on to participate.  The same invitation was                                                             
also offered to the "ship drivers."  He further noted that the                                                                  
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities has been very                                                                  
forthcoming with information as well.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1657                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JAN WRENTMORE, Lobbyist, City of Skagway, came before the committee                                                             
to testify.  Skagway feels that the fast ferries are an excellent                                                               
solution to the bottleneck in northern Lynn Canal.  The ferries                                                                 
will give the city great versatility in responding to traffic                                                                   
demands at different times of the year for various events.                                                                      
Moreover, fast ferries have been used all over the world.  They are                                                             
used in Scandinavia where the weather conditions are similar:                                                                   
narrow fjords, high winds, and big tides.  If they can work there,                                                              
she said, they can work in Alaska.  Furthermore, by building three                                                              
ferries of the same model, the state will save money on                                                                         
construction, design and maintenance costs because of                                                                           
interchangability.  Skagway also supports Auke Bay as the departure                                                             
point for passenger convenience.  Departing from another location,                                                              
she said, would require an EIS, thereby creating a further delay.                                                               
The fast ferries are the short-term, expedient solution.  Thank                                                                 
you.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1734                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BART HENDERSON (PH) came before the committee to testify.  He is                                                                
the chairman of the Chamber of Commerce Marine Access Committee.                                                                
The economic benefit in the off-season of daily ferry service                                                                   
between Haines, Skagway and Juneau represents a new opportunity,                                                                
especially since Haines and Skagway suffer from a seasonal economy.                                                             
It is seen as a means of directing tourism-related spending towards                                                             
upper Lynn Canal and vice versa, which should not be overlooked.                                                                
In addition, as the user-friendliness of the ferry system improves,                                                             
more people will use it, which will help with the ongoing funding                                                               
issues that the ferry system always faces.  The Juneau-Skagway link                                                             
has always been the most self-supporting part of the entire system,                                                             
and those in the northern end believe that making this service more                                                             
reliable, predictable and faster will create an even larger base of                                                             
clientele.  He said, "The old theory, if you build it they will                                                                 
come, I think, is never more appropriate than [ever] in this                                                                    
situation."  He urged the committee members to support the bill.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1861                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
NANCY WEBB, Assembly Member, Fairbanks North Star Borough,                                                                      
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks.  She is a member of                                                                
the Infrastructure & Public Works Committee, which deals with                                                                   
transportation issues.  The financing mechanism, she said, is                                                                   
interesting and worth pursuing, but she is hesitant about the                                                                   
process used to decide which projects should go on the ballot.  She                                                             
is not clear on what the people should expect to see on the ballot.                                                             
She further said that the downtown project is the best type of                                                                  
project to be addressed by this type of funding because of its                                                                  
rapid development, otherwise it appears that it will take a long                                                                
time to get funding on the STIP [Statewide Transportation                                                                       
Improvement Program].  The other assembly members would share that                                                              
same feeling; however, she is not speaking in a way that reflects                                                               
the whole assembly.  The other two Fairbanks projects, as far as                                                                
she can tell, would not move up in the timetable by placing them on                                                             
the ballot.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO called on Commissioner Joseph L. Perkins                                                                        
[Department of Transportation & Public Facilities] to address Ms.                                                               
Webb's concerns.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. WEBB asked Commissioner Perkins what affect this legislation                                                                
would have on the University Avenue project and Illinois Street                                                                 
project in Fairbanks; it doesn't seem that they would move forward                                                              
any faster.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOSEPH L. PERKINS, Commissioner, Department of Transportation &                                                                 
Public Facilities, came before the committee to answer Ms. Webb's                                                               
questions.  He explained that the department looked at projects                                                                 
that could be developed quickly.  The projects that Ms. Webb                                                                    
referred can be developed within the next few years, and this                                                                   
legislation would gain time on construction by about three years                                                                
for both projects.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2086                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WEBB asked Commissioner Perkins whether there would be a                                                                    
problem with the downtown project since there hasn't been a study                                                               
done yet.  She further asked Commissioner Perkins how he sees the                                                               
regular process through local government approval fitting in with                                                               
this project.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied the downtown project was presented by                                                              
the mayor and various other individuals in Fairbanks.  It would be                                                              
done in conjunction with the city.  It would probably be very                                                                   
similar to what was done to 5th and 6th Avenues in downtown                                                                     
Anchorage.  It is not an enormous project to start; it mainly                                                                   
includes sidewalks, lighting facilities, and flower boxes.  There                                                               
would probably be some utility work, but he thinks that the project                                                             
is quite deliverable in a short time once the city determines what                                                              
they want.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2172                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WEBB asked Commissioner Perkins whether the money could be                                                                  
spent on improvements and enhancements for other types of projects.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied that the funding would be limited to                                                               
projects listed in the legislation.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO referred Ms. Webb to page 3, line 9, of the bill,                                                               
and noted that the language reads, "downtown revitalization                                                                     
improvements," which gives the department the ability to decide on                                                              
what amenities to fund.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2277                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Commissioner Perkins whether the                                                                    
projects listed in the legislation are in addition to regularly                                                                 
funded projects.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied the legislation advances those                                                                     
projects forward; however, they are still part of the regular                                                                   
program.  He said,                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     If the regular program is $350 million a year, and our                                                                     
     payment is $30 million, just as an example, then the                                                                       
     regular program is going to be reduced to $320 million.                                                                    
     So, they will be in the regular program, but they will be                                                                  
     in for an equal amount of money each year for 15 years,                                                                    
     assuming we sold the bonds.  So, they would be in the                                                                      
     program.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said it seems that the legislation expands                                                                
the transportation program appreciably.  He asked Commissioner                                                                  
Perkins whether the legislature could anticipate accumulative                                                                   
projects in excess of $350 million a year.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied, yes, in the early years.  The money                                                               
would be spent up front.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2346                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK asked Commissioner Perkins whether the                                                             
legislation would affect projects already slated for construction.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied there would be no impact in the first                                                              
three years of the STIP, but beyond that, there would be some                                                                   
impact.  He further said,                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     But there'll be very little money paid back.  Our                                                                          
     payments, our big debt-service payments won't occur until                                                                  
     probably three years into the program.  You will be                                                                        
     paying some interest, but it will be a minor impact.  So,                                                                  
     I would say the current STIP that you will look at for                                                                     
     01, 02 and 03 will have no impact.  04 is probably the                                                                     
     year that gets charged the $30 million.  Again, that's                                                                     
     out of our illustrative program that we have just                                                                          
     basically for information.  It's not scheduled and it                                                                      
     changes all around.  So, that's the impact not on the                                                                      
     three years of the STIP.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO closed the meeting to public testimony.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2406                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ALLEN KEMPLEN referred to the Glenn Highway-Gambell                                                              
Street project in the legislation and noted that improvements in                                                                
that part of town have always been fairly controversial.  In 1991,                                                              
he cited, AMTAS identified this area as special, in that it needed                                                              
additional evaluation.  Furthermore, when he contacted the                                                                      
neighborhood leaders they were not aware that this project was                                                                  
moving forward, which may result in some upset neighborhoods.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-13, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS indicated that just about every project he                                                                 
does has some degree of controversy.  He noted that a contractor is                                                             
onboard to start the environmental work on the Glenn                                                                            
Highway-Gambell Street project, which will involve public hearings.                                                             
The expected start date will give the department more than                                                                      
sufficient time to talk to the neighborhoods and get opinions from                                                              
all those involved.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0057                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN indicated that he is questioning whether or                                                              
not the voters in those communities would share that same sense of                                                              
accommodation.  He is not questioning the success of the department                                                             
in pushing projects.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0088                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to move HB 319 out of committee                                                             
with individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes; he asked                                                             
unanimous consent.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN objected to the motion in order to offer an                                                              
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON withdrew his motion.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0120                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN offered the following amendment [Amendment                                                               
1]:                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 29                                                                                                            
          delete "Gambell Street"                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 30                                                                                                            
          delete "to McCarrey Street"                                                                                           
          insert "Interchanges at Bragaw & Airport Heights"                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 31                                                                                                            
          change "65,000,000" to "25,000,000"                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN explained that the purpose of the amendment                                                              
is to reflect safety concerns expressed by the neighborhoods.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON indicated that he doesn't feel comfortable                                                                
amending the legislation without a substantive understanding of the                                                             
effects.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated he would like to amend the legislation as                                                                
well, but he doesn't want to turn it into a "Christmas tree."                                                                   
However, in deference to Representative Kemplen and the fact that                                                               
this is a neighborhood issue, he will allow the commissioner to                                                                 
speak to the amendment and let the committee deal with it.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0260                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS explained that Glenn Highway reduces to two                                                                
lanes for about a mile then expands to three lanes at Gambell                                                                   
Street.  There are traffic lights at the intersections, but the                                                                 
real problem is with congestion caused by the number of lanes.  He                                                              
doesn't think that the amendment would solve or even start to solve                                                             
the problem.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0316                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN replied, certainly, there are issues of                                                                  
congestion in that part of town, but he questions whether the                                                                   
department has taken the best approach.  He cited that a number of                                                              
states are using computer and video technology to increase                                                                      
throughput by up to 20 percent in corridors.  This amendment would                                                              
allow for work to proceed for those interchanges where there is                                                                 
consensus, and would allow for a six-lane project through the                                                                   
normal capital improvement process.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0465                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Commissioner Perkins whether the issues                                                             
brought up by Representative Kemplen are part of the normal STIP.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied that the plan for the Glenn Highway                                                                
for the last 25 years has been to include six lanes.  The project                                                               
in this legislation is the last piece.  He asked, "Now, if this                                                                 
wasn't the plan, why did we do the piece that goes all the way out                                                              
to Muldoon, and why did we do the piece down by Gambell?"  This                                                                 
area involved is very built up, but it's not built up with                                                                      
neighborhoods; it's built up with businesses.  He reiterated that                                                               
this has always been part of the plan, for it doesn't make sense to                                                             
go from three lanes to two lanes then back to three lanes.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0560                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN urged the committee members to be very                                                                   
cautious in supporting capital projects that are solely oriented                                                                
towards movement of vehicles at the expense of adjacent                                                                         
neighborhoods.  He pointed out that the "six-laning" of Glenn                                                                   
Highway split the Mountain View neighborhood, which resulted in a                                                               
decline of property value to the point that it is one of the                                                                    
poorest neighborhoods in Anchorage and probably the state.  These                                                               
types of road improvements, he said, have significant influence on                                                              
adjacent land use and the people who live there.  This amendment                                                                
would provide for a balance.  It would allow for some of the needed                                                             
improvements, and would ensure that the adjoining neighborhoods are                                                             
protected.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY said,                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     You know when I first came to Alaska we had that road                                                                      
     changed to about 3rd Avenue, I think.  We had a north and                                                                  
     south Mountain View then.  To say that crime has been                                                                      
     influenced by this freeway...I would think that if                                                                         
     there's crime in the area the thing to do is let the                                                                       
     people get through there in a hurry.  If that's the case,                                                                  
     to tie this in to anything like that...I can't agree on                                                                    
     that.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY called the question.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated that he was very tempted to make a change to                                                             
this legislation to include a project at the interchange of Lake                                                                
Otis and Tudor, but he elected not to because of how the proposal                                                               
is put together.  He will not support the amendment, but he agrees                                                              
with the concept.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0730                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK asked Commissioner Perkins whether there were                                                              
public hearings when the highway was brought to six lanes.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied that he wasn't around during those                                                                 
days, but he thinks that the rules were the same.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK asked Commissioner Perkins how many public                                                                 
hearings will be held.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied he's not sure exactly, but there will                                                              
be a "bunch."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK asked Commissioner Perkins whether the                                                                     
department will be working with AMATS in relation to this project                                                               
in order to iron out any problems, should they arise.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied that this is a National Highway System                                                             
project, but the department will nonetheless work with AMATS as                                                                 
well.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK asked Commissioner Perkins whether he assumes                                                              
that there will be a lot of public input.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied both Representative Kemplen and the                                                                
neighborhoods will have adequate opportunity to comment on the                                                                  
plans, which is true for every project.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0917                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Commissioner Perkins how many miles are                                                             
involved in this stretch of highway.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied he's not sure exactly, but it's no                                                                 
more than a mile.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said,                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     I'm being a little facetious now.  But it's $65,000 for                                                                    
     one mile, and I'm just looking for 50 miles, which I                                                                       
     think I can do for $240 million.  It seems to me that we                                                                   
     ought to be able to make a deal here, somewhere.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied the difference is, there are 60,000                                                                
cars a day that travel down the Glenn highway.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken.  Representatives Kemplen and Kookesh                                                                
voted "yea."  Representatives Hudson, Masek, Halcro and Cowdery                                                                 
voted "nay."   The amendment failed by a vote of 2-4.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0983                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to move HB 319 out of committee                                                             
with individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes; he asked                                                             
unanimous consent.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN objected to the motion.  He is still                                                                     
concerned about the Glenn Highway-Gambell Street project,                                                                       
especially as it relates to the state's lack of skilled labor.  He                                                              
is concerned that the state is pushing too much work into the                                                                   
economy, which would result in an importation of labor from the                                                                 
Lower 48, especially when a more reasonable approach can be taken                                                               
to ensure that only Alaskans are hired.  He is also concerned about                                                             
the expenses associated with operation and maintenance, especially                                                              
since maintenance stations are being closed around the state.  He                                                               
hopes that these issues would be considered before the legislation                                                              
leaves the purview of the House Transportation Committee.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1162                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO replied that the commissioner has already testified                                                             
that there are a sufficient number of contractors and workers                                                                   
interested in these projects.  He further stated one thing that                                                                 
attracts him to this bond package is the fact that it doesn't build                                                             
any new roads; it simply improves existing ones.  He said, "As we                                                               
all know, a lot of federal highway money can't be used to fix                                                                   
potholes or haul snow or repair sidewalks."  This legislation is an                                                             
innovative way to allow for improved transportation flow, improved                                                              
amenities, and improved access.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1255                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated he doesn't see a fiscal note attached                                                             
to the legislation.  What is the actual cost?  It's one thing to                                                                
talk anecdotally; it's another thing to have hard numbers,                                                                      
especially before making a decision.  Any business person, he said,                                                             
who is serious about keeping a tight control on cost-structures                                                                 
always wants to know what is going to be the long-term obligation                                                               
before incurring debt.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1321                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated that, according to previous testimony,                                                             
the projects in this legislation would not "super heat" the                                                                     
economy.  They would be spread over a number of years.  Moreover,                                                               
if there is a shortage of labor, it's probably because of the                                                                   
tremendous transportation boom down South, which may not be all                                                                 
that bad; it may result in additional training for Alaskans.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN maintained his objection to moving the bill                                                              
out of committee.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken.  Representatives Hudson, Masek, Halcro,                                                             
Cowdery and Kookesh voted "yea."  Representative Kemplen voted                                                                  
"nay."  By a vote of 5-1, HB 319 so moved from the House                                                                        
Transportation Standing Committee.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, Chairman                                                                  
Halcro adjourned the House Transportation Standing Committee                                                                    
meeting at 2:25 p.m.                                                                                                            

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